those countries -- europe does very little in the way of its own defense, et cetera. we are the primary drivers of defense spending in the entire world. we have a lot more to protect. so, to say they're doing business in europe doesn't answer the concerns of the united states. >> i'm not sure what the connection is there. hauwei sells commercial telecommunications infrastructure. this is the plumbing through which internet traffic takes place. we don't operate any networks. the gear they deploy is built to the same global standards as our competitors and all of it is being developeded and coded and built in china to a great extent. there are vulnerabilities, but they are universal. and anyone that would purport to suggest that you can resolve those by singling out a single company is actually creating a more dangerous cyber situation by lending to a false sense of security. >> all right, sir, thank you very much for appearing first on cnbc. >> thank you very much. >> coming up, will our children hate us because of our debt and deficit? the architect of greece's debt d